Orlando Speedworld Bathroom Seems to Be (Unintentionally) Modeled After Surgeries Found in Horror Films

Orlando Speed World
19164 E Colonial Dr
Orlando, FL 32820-3701
www.orlandospeedworld.org

Where is it?

After paying admission, walk up to the main track along the main walkway there. As you do, you'll end up heading through a paved divide between two white single-story buildings. Both of these are concession stands: The one on your left (with your back to the parking lot) is where you can get hot dogs, hamburgers, soft drinks and the like; the one on the right is where you get beer (from what I saw, only Bud and Bud Light -- Budweiser gets a lot of signage here).

Just past the building is the main walkway, running left to right, and in front of that is the main seating benches, which stretch about 50 feet in the air. The place's quarter-mile track is on the other side of the benches; go left or right, to the edge of the benches, and then climb up to get a seat and a view of the track. (There are some other seating areas further long as well, if you follow the perimeter of the track.)

But at the junction, to get to the bathrooms, you must turn left and pass the concession stand there. Keep going to the next building, which looks a lot like that first building, and you'll see the entrance to the restrooms there, which large painted signs indicating which room is for what.

What's it like?

Tucked away in the near-rural environs of Bithlo, east of Orlando, this is Orlando's version of NASCAR's minor leagues. The complex is large and contains two distinct race tracks: One for drag racing and one for Florida's NASCAR league, called FASCAR, which includes races from stock cars, modifieds, and the like. Behind the main track is a pit for mechanics and drivers to prep for races.

It's an old complex and certainly looks like it needs some upkeep in spots. The seating areas are sketchy and shaky at best. There's lots of cracked concrete and trash. Yet at the same time it's homey and got character. For Orlando, a city that's always rebuilding itself, this place is old and worn down and a bit backwoods in appearance, but the people are genuine friendly and tend to be enthusiasts of the sport. Not exactly a place for everyone but certainly surreal and enjoyable in its own right.

The bathrooms are unique as well. My visit occurred at the start of races, so the toilets were empty and mostly unused. On the surface, they look like concrete cousins to the mass-market toilets experienced in England, like the ones at Bicester Village or across the way from the Tower of London. They are large, filled with many urinals and have lots of concrete. But those were also a lot nicer than these. (And I've been told that if I visit at the end of the evening, the toilets are truly horrifying. Glad I didn't do that!)

There is a strange, horror film clinic feel to this place. The walls and floor are concrete, as stated. The walls are white and with plenty of dust and dirt on them. The floors are painted deep red and have several spots where the paint has either been worn off or the concrete has been chunked out.

The red color plays a major role here. In addition to the floor, its the color that trims the supply cabinet closet door and is the color of the sign for the restroom outside. The red provides a sharp contrast to the whiteness of the rest of the place and really makes you feel like you've stepped into some haunted house or similarly scary environment.

The bathroom is set up in three distinct sections. The front area includes the entrance, supply closet and sinks. The sinks are the standard white porcelain fixtures you'll find at most semi-outdoor bathrooms, including many of the U.S. national parks, like the main station toilets at Arches and the Yavapai Point bathroom at the Grand Canyon. These were somewhat clean when I arrived, but they weren't exactly the cleanest sinks I've seen. The sealant on the edges was worn, and there were plenty of mildew stains. Also, for what was about five total sinks in all, only one of the sinks had a soap dispenser on it, and it was one of those generic supermarket brand soap pump containers (a red soap, no less).

The middle section is where the urinals are. Like at the Tower of London, there are two rows of them, each on opposite walls of one another and facing one another. No privacy barriers. Lots of chipped paint and gouges in the floor. No automatic flushes. Really, kind of creepy in its attempt at sterility.

The back area is where the toilet stalls are, as well as another row of urinals. The stalls are made of drywall and have bright yellow curtains for doors. This, of course, also adds to the clinical feel here. I know the designers were aiming for an old-style garage feel (like what's seen at Cruisers Cafe), but given the worn out state of the rest of the place it just ends up looking like you're walking into a black market doctor's office for an operation you really don't want but are being forced to get. It's creepy. The toilets aren't really that clean either (reminiscent of the ones I saw at Catherine Palace in Russia), which doesn't help either.

Worse still, if you're in the stall and a child runs by quickly, then the curtain lifts some in the after breeze and suddenly your assumed privacy is ruined. Not exactly what you want to have happen when you're on the throne and a bunch of drunk FASCAR fans are relieving themselves right in front of you, if you catch my drift.

Also, at the far end of this chamber is an exhaust fan. Not sure why it's there since the place smelled pretty ghastly, but the fan was covered with dust and cobwebs. Ick.

Finally, I was here in Florida's winter time. I am thinking than in the summer, the place is crawling with insects (as evident by the filthy exhaust fan). Top that with the summer heat and this probably makes for one truly horrifying and uncomfortable experience -- one that rivals the horrors of Kappy's, I am guessing.

Marks out of 10:

2. Pretty scary, I hate to say. I feel bad for women, who can't just pee and go.

Comments to the Management:

Definitely needs another coat of paint and some serious scrubbing. This doesn't have to be impeccable, considering it's really just a stadium bathroom, but if an outhouse at 10,000 feet high is considerably more polished than this, then some work is definitely needed. Aiming to equal some lower-end national park bathrooms would be idea.

Creepy Bathroom at D-Lites Located At End of Very Long, Long Hallway

D'Lites Emporium
1906 S. Dale Mabry Hwy
Tampa, FL USA
www.tampabaydlites.com

Where is it?

Prepare for a trek.

From the front entrance, head to the back of the store, past the scant number of shelves housing various health foods and, further back, the order counter, where you can get your diet-friendly desserts dished up. Veer to the left of the order counter and head down the long hallway there.

That hallway will literally snake to the very back of the business -- it's a hallway that seems about three times as long as the main store's length. Along the way, you'll pass various supply closets, piles of supplies (both cleaning and food-related), and a number of doors leading to (no doubt) mysterious places.

When you've reach the place's back exit, know that this is the actual end of the hallway. You cannot go on any further down that hallway without going outside the building and ending up in the back parking lot. To the immediate right of the exit door is a white door. In there is the bathroom.

What's it like?

This humble store front, lodged into a slightly run-down strip mall in south Tampa, offers decent tasting frozen desserts (like frozen yogurt, but not) for the calorie conscious. A small, one-scoop serving of its resident dessert concoction has, supposedly, only 50 calories to it. To keep things friendly on the belly, toppings include items like carob chips (instead of chocolate chips) .

In addition, visitors can get iced drinks and shakes, cakes, bulk containers of the frozen treat, as well as items like high-fiber pasta and sugar-free dessert toppings, found on the handful of shelves in the front of the store.

I can't say it's the best frozen dessert I've ever had, but considering that it's not as bad for you as those items it's not too bad either. Worth a visit if you're in the area.

The bathroom here is not worth a visit, though.

As mentioned before, it's at the end of a very long hallway - it's very, very long, abnormally so. You don't really figure it will be that long of a hallway because the store itself is pretty small. But this thing just keeps going on and on, twisting around corners, taking you by all sorts of industrial-looking items like ladders and milk crates. By the time you reach the back, you feel like you're in another world.

At first, I thought this was due to the fitness/diet motif of the place. People are coming here for diet-friendly desserts, so why not make them walk one or two miles to use the restroom.

But then the hallway itself, and the bathroom at the end of it, aren't exactly pleasant places to be. They feel isolated and makeshift, almost ruse-like, as if they were constructed not for a purpose but as a place where lesser elements might take victims. I am exaggerating to an extent on the purpose here, but YES, IT'S THAT SCARY.

After a long journey, you expect to find a place that's at least a little bit welcoming. But instead, you find a place better suited to John Wayne Gacy. I mean no disrespect to the owners here, but it's damn creepy down that hallway and in that bathroom!

I mean, there are bars on the window in the bathroom! WHY?!?!?

The room itself is a small one-bagger chamber containing a number of pieced together parts, like a toilet that looks like it was picked up in a yard sale, a white, wood-framed mirror that looks like its frame was once another color, and a standard white porcelain sink with ugly chrome faucets.

The walls here are basic white drywall, the floors covered in basic rectangular tile, slightly off-white in color. The walls are pretty bare, save for a lone poster advertising the place's diet-friendly frozen treat. The poster reads: "Add a new twist to your lifestyle." Given the creepy setting around me, I must admit I felt pretty uneasy about the implications of that statement.

The toilet itself has some pretty sharp water stains in the basin. The unit itself sits flat on the ground but right behind it is a little lip in the floor, about two inches up, that offers a solitary home to the plunger. It's a similar concept to what I saw at Westminster Abbey, only that (and its FEMBIN can) the lip there was much larger and less purposeful.

A little strange to offer a shelf entirely to a plunger, I think, but then again I've seen stranger in a toilet, like Fixodent, hydrogen peroxide, and foot cream. And even with the oddly placed shelf/lip, it's still a more user-friendly setup than what I found at Bloomingdale's Orlando.

Also strange is the proximity in which the toilet paper holder is placed to the toilet. It's practically jammed next to it, making it all but impossible for anyone sitting down on the toilet to not slam into the thing while trying to get up. To not do so, you literally have to slide into position from the side, which is not as easy as it sounds, believe me.

The sink itself also has its share of hard water stains, and its faucets don't work correctly. The left faucet produces a spraying stream of water from the spigot (as opposed to a clean stream -- you kind of get it all over you here). The right faucet produces only a tiny trickle of water, not even enough to get soap off your hands easily.

Another oddity is the paper towel dispenser: It hands on the wall in the back left corner, beside the creepy poster for the business and above a lonely looking stainless steel trashcan that's maybe about a foot high. The dispenser itself is a large, translucent plastic cylinder in which you tear off bits of paper from the bottom. On it, you'll find a homemade sign reading: "Please help save the trees."

Now, I'm not sure why it says that. Is it implying that I should not dry my hands? If so, then what other alternative to I have? There is no air dryer here, only toilet paper, which, if I use, is the same as killing another tree, isn't it?

And then I thought: Perhaps the sign was a bit of advice, implying that if I left the bathroom with wet hands, I could use that water for sustenance on the long trip back to the front of the store. I wasn't sure. I used a towel regardless and then hurried back, for fear that someone might burst through the bar-covered window if I lingered too long.

Easily the creepiest toilet -- much more so than others I've been in, like Teramok in St. Petersburg, Russia, Holopaw Restaurant and Kappy's.

Marks out of 10:

3. Very, very creepy.

Comments to the Management:

My first priority here would be to make the bathroom a place that welcomes visitors more. Put some fun decor on the walls, paint the walls friendly colors (like the same colors as some of your friendly looking diet-friendly treats?). If you can't remove the bars from the window, then cover the window up -- we don't need to see that.

Then start working on making the passageway more friendly to wall through and not such a wasteland of cleaning supplies and other forgotten trinkets. If you can, bring the bathroom closer to the main store so as not to make it feel so detached from the rest of the place. And clean the place up some -- lose the water stains, get the sink working properly.

Bathroom at Zefferino Las Vegas May Just Be the World's Best -- It's That Good!

Zeffirino Las Vegas
The Venetian
3377 Las Vegas Blvd S, Ste 2095
Las Vegas, NV USA
www.zeffirinolasvegas.com

Where is it?

This restaurant is located in the Canal Shoppes inside the Venetian Hotel and Casino, between the Ann Taylor store and Simayof jewelers.

The first floor is more of a two-tiered lounge area, with a ornate bar, piano, some bar tables and a counter with iced down shellfish and the like. Upstairs is the main dining room, which you can get to either by elevator or stairs.

To go to the bathroom, and if you're taking the stairs, got to the top of the stairs. This will deposit you in a small sitting area covered with framed pictures of famous people who have visited the establishment (either here or at one of its other locations around the world) since 1939, when it first opened in Genova. If taking the elevator: It will drop you off to the left of that sitting area.

In both cases, the main dining room will unfold to your right, so to get to the bathrooms you will need to head leftward -- away from the dining room. (The restaurant's website actually incorporates the establishment's floor plan into its navigation -- a good tool to use before visiting, if you're curious.)

Once going that way, snake back, down a twisting hallway coated with various framed articles about the restaurants and some joyous Medieval mosaics, until you reach the end, at which you'll find the bathroom. The men's is behind a rather dainty door, simply and manly looking. The women's is behind a very ornate door.

What's it like?

This famed Italian restaurant, as stated earlier, started in Genova, Italy in 1939 and one of its original chefs, Gian Paolo Belloni (who's father was Zefferino himself), is credited for making pesto a world-wide phenomenon. The restaurant itself celebrates the reputation of the kitchen, as many of the wall hangings here are framed newspaper and magazine articles from around the world which tout the chef's skill, including more than a few saying that the Gian Paolo has made his famous pesto and pasta for the Pope himself.

The design of the place brings to mind the spirit of a twisted Venetian walkway -- something the Grand Canal Shoppes intimate but don't actualize. The entrance, as stated earlier, is large, grand and old-feeling, with lots of small corridors, twists and turns, and angled rooms, overlooks, dark woods and chandeliers. Upstairs, the dining room literally unfolds before you, starting small and then twisting open around a large rectangular pivot to reveal an extensive stretch of white linen tables that follows the perimeter of the facade (which overlooks the Canal Shoppes) and recedes deep into the belly of the restaurant.

Dark woods and dim lighting dominate the place. The walls are covered with those framed articles and other pieces of Italian or Italian-inspired art -- think de Medici re-visited and you've got it.

The service is uppity and very accommodating but not necessarily warm -- it's very professional, as what you might get overseas. Although I have not eaten here outside of its famed Sunday champagne brunch, I will attest that this brunch is one of the best, if not the best, I've experienced.

It features a sprawling set of tables, each offering a different variety of food. There is both a hot and cold seafood area, including selections like marinated tuna and in-house smoked salmon, as well as a hot bar containing an assortment of chicken, meat and seafood dishes -- not to mention the house's special pesto and pasta, which is indeed divine. There is also a selection of world cheeses, a raw bar containing halved lobsters, shrimp and other shellfish, a carving station, a pasta station and an antipasto area, containing an assortment of fresh and marinated vegetables and cold cuts. Finally, there is a an extensive dessert table, containing a minimum of 20 cakes and petite fours -- all of which are worth trying. It's a very impressive buffet in a land of buffets, if you will. Definitely worth a visit, despite the steep price tag.

On the flip side, the bathrooms here are beyond the notion of impressive. Even beyond the impression of being heavenly. I've been here twice, the first two a few years back, and on that visit the bathroom I encountered a tasteful one-bagger that was comfortable but unspectacular.

In between that visit and this, it was rumored that the restaurant had spent more than $2 million on renovating its bathroom. I must attest that you can see the money spent in every facet of this room. It's a truly regal place in every regard -- something more associated with a Roman Emperor than an Italian place in a Vegas casino mall.

And miles better than any other bathroom found in the Venetian.

In fact, it's so impressive here that I actually believe this bathroom bests any other I've experienced in this town -- or anywhere else, including such wonderful places as Wynn Las Vegas, Bartolotta Ristorante di Mare, Paris Las Vegas Hotel and Casino, Sensi, Okada and the Bellagio. It's even better than our vote for 2008's Best Toilet of the Year -- Mansion at Forsyth Park in Savannah, GA.

This is just an other worldly experience from start to finish.

So what's it like? After passing down the hallway leading to them, and marveling at the intricate mosaic work on the walls, you come to a modest-looking door, which in effect makes you think this will be nothing more than a humble toilet -- like the aforementioned one-bagger.

Step through the door and you're floored: This spacious environment boasts marble floors that look like they've been taken from a palace (I'm thinking the floors found in the Hermitage Museum in St. Petersburg, Russia, for example, even though the bathrooms there are awful and not at all indicative of the beauty of the rest of the place.) The marble work has beige and white checkerboard pattern, with dark brown and black outlines and highlights. The lower walls have a beige/white marble pattern on the, with black trim, and the upper walls are made of plaster.

Along the far left of the back wall are three urinal stalls. Each has twisted columns at their head, as well as a sweeping red curtain blanketing them. The stalls themselves are deep, with long floor-to-ceiling divider walls. The urinals are small bell-shaped units with automatic flushes.

To their left, in the back right corner, are three toilet stalls. Like the urinals, these are deep chambers, with gray and white marble along the lower halves of their walls and wallpapered walls on the upper. They are white porcelain toilets in their very backs, with storage chambers overhead and bronze toilet paper holders to their side. A heavy wooden door with gold plated latch closes the place off from the rest of the room, creating a very private chamber indeed. Lighting is dim but not overly so. Some toilet paper is stacked atop the toilet itself -- something I find decided European in its charms.

Across from the urinals and toilets is a long vanity area, composed of a single stretch mirror framed in dark wood, three bronze-metal spigot faucets with matching manual knobs and accompanying standalone soap dispensers, and a single-piece, three-unit flat, square marble trough, which doubles as both the vanity and the sink. Quite a spectacle to behold.

To its right is a toiletries station, which features plush paper towels, tissues and a mouthwash dispenser, along with disposable single-use plastic cups. (This was the first time I've seen such an add-on since visiting Orlando's Citrus Club.)

I spent a lot of time here, I must admit, and after leaving it to return to my table I felt disappointed. As decorative and classy as the dining room was, it paled in comparison to the elegance of this bathroom.

Worse still: When I returned, I was told by my dining companion that the women's room was even more regal, with sitting stations, waiting areas, extensive vanities and more. Next time I'm here, I'm venturing inside to see what I'm missing.

Marks out of 10:

12. If I could go higher, I would.

Comments to the Management:

You are worthy of psalms. Could I rent a toilet stall for a week next time I'm in Vegas?

Fuggedaboudit: Bathroom at Pannullo's Makes Offer You Can't Refuse

Pannullo's Italian Restaurant
216 S Park Ave
Winter Park, FL USA
www.pannullos.com

Where is it?

This is a pretty small, narrow place -- about as close to a authentically sized New York City restaurant as you will probably find in Orlando. Really, it's just a long, thin rectangle, with a thinner central area that makes room for a semi-open kitchen.

To find the bathroom, head through the outdoor seating area up front, straight past the hostess station, to the very rear of the place -- the back, left corner to be specific. Once there, head past the waitress station and look on your left -- the entrance to the bathrooms will be there.

What's it like?

This semi-upscale joint, located on swanky Park Avenue in Winter Park, is one of the city's more reliable spots for decent everyday Italian food. Think of it as a neighborhood pizzeria that's raised the quality of food a beyond the standard pizzeria fare.

Inside, it looks much like a Manhattan restaurant, with brick walls, dim lighting, and a somewhat crammed dining room that (in my opinion) packs in a few too many tables for its own good. But the food is good and well-priced and the service is commendable. The pizza baked here is some of the best in the city (at least in my top 5) and the pasta dishes (including a wonderful ravioli terracina -- ravioli stuffed with mushroom and spinach) and sandwiches (a terrific meatball Parmesan sub) are baked on fresh bread and are definitely a cut above from the standard sub shop or chain pizza house.

The crowd here ranges from regulars and families to see-and-be-seen types (it is Park Avenue) and college kids. Definitely worth a stop if you're in the area. If only the dining room were a little roomier.....

The bathrooms poke a lot of fun at the criminal end of the Italian-American persona, as the green-painted walls are covered with the names of various gangsters and characters (and, in one case, Donnie Brasco, who was an undercover cop masquerading as a gangster, but who wants to quibble with specifics, considering the subject matter, right?).

As such, as you peruse the walls here, you see names like "Sonnie the Bull," "Moe Greene" (from the Godfather), "Bugsy Seigel," and aforementioned "Donnie Brasco" and many more. It's a cute gimmick that will make any mob movie fan smile. (Coincidentally, the motif would pair nicely with a visit to the bathroom at NYPD Pizza in Downtown Orlando, since that bathroom has been designed on a classic NYC police station. As for who has a better pizza.... that's a debate best left to another setting.)

The facilities themselves, like the dining room, are a little tight-fitting. Not as tight as Club Quarters Philadelphia or at Petro Palace lobby or the SkyBar in St. Petersburg, Russia, but still a bit too tight for it's own good, especially if there is more than one person inside at a time.

The layout, like the dining room, is that of a long, thin rectangle. Upon entering, you'll see a sink station across from you, in the back corner. It's got a porcelain vanity, with a funky-framed mirror overhead and a cabinet underneath. Off-white tile covers the area immediately around the sink -- sort of like a splash-proof zone (the designers at the Lotus Blossom Cafe in Disney's EPCOT might want take note of the effectiveness of this setup). Above that, as with the rest of the upper walls of the place, are the painted green walls with the names of the mobsters on it.

In the front is an old-fashioned urinal that stretches to the floor -- combined with the tile work (which mixes straight block tiles with a wavy-lined pattern highlight), the place gives off the look and feel of an old-fashioned toilet chamber. Mind you, it's not as successful as, say, Montparnasse 1900 in Paris or Philadelphia's Davio's, but certainly more than Columbia Restaurant Celebration, which promised an old-fashioned bathroom atmosphere but didn't deliver at all.

The toilet stall is in the middle of the place, kind of pushed in between the sink and urinal. As said, it's pretty tight in here.

It's also a bit noisy, since the entrance is set right across from the main waitress station, which is behind the bar against the back wall and the drink filling station. To get here, you will probably have to dodge a few waiters.

It's clean for the most part, however. I didn't spot any spilled water or paper, but I did find a napkin left behind on the sink station. Considering the charm of the place, I said, "Fuggedaboudit."

Marks out of 10:

7. A fun place, but also a bit too crammed and noisy. Almost an 8, but I just couldn't do it.

Comments to the Management:

Seeing that you probably can't make it any bigger, perhaps add some music in here, to lessen the noise factor. Otherwise, kudos on the clever design.

Amway Arena Bathroom Really Just a Cave with Lots of Urinals

Amway Arena
600 W Amelia St
Orlando, FL USA
www.orlandovenues.net

Where is it?

This bathroom reviewed here is located near the entrance to the seats in sections 103-104 and 203-204.

So to get there, find that area via the signs pointing to them, look across the hall from them -- you'll see a large tiled divider wall (almost monolithic in size, really). Go behind that wall and you'll come across the bathrooms.

What's it like?

Orlando's main arena, home to the Orlando Magic and big concert draws, this large stadium seats around 17,000 for most basketball games and concerts. It's a pleasant enough place to enjoy such an event, though the echoes and acoustics can be a bit of a strain -- as much sound seems to get stuck in its many upper corners.

Like most arenas, it has a number of attractions, from various gift stalls selling T-shirts and other wares, to an assortment of food vendors, offering an array of fast food and such. Seats are of the plastic fold-down variety -- not too comfortable, but not as bad as other venues I've been to.

The bathrooms here are enormous, multi-person and cavernous. In fact, walking in one it really looks just like a being in a cave -- only this cave is lined with urinals along its perimeter.

And it's not as dank as the cave-like bathroom at at Pulkovo International Airport in St. Petersburg, Russia, but that's only because it's much larger than that. Still, this is very much a cave and nothing else.

Essentially, the facilities here consist of one long room. A barrage of sinks (all white porcelain, with single mirrors over them) covering both sides of the walls greets you once you step inside. Beyond that is a long single room that has dozens of urinals fixed to its left and back wall and a long row of toilet stalls along the right wall.

The urinals have no dividers between them, and black metal makes up the stall divider walls. Various posters of upcoming events hang above the urinals -- which is better than nothing, I guess. The upper walls are covered in beige tile, the lower walls with a drab gray tile. That same colored gray tile (albeit smaller) covers the floors, which is also dotted with small black tiles for highlights -- similar to what was seen at Theo's Kitchen, only on a much larger scale.

What's amusing here is that a lot of the fixtures are dated. The sink faucets, for example, are the old-fashioned turn-on variety you used to see predominantly several years back. I haven't seen faucets this antiquated since visiting the Delta Crown Room in the JFK International terminal.

Also, this is the only place I've ever seen advertisement stickers placed around the piping of the toilets -- a very strange place to place an ad, I think, since you can never really see the entire ad. So far, I've seen business cards and fliers placed in the bathroom (like at that horrid CVS Pharmacy in Savannah, GA) and I've seen printed pieces of paper taped to specific areas of the bathroom (like at the scary Goyan Gip Korean Restaurant), but I never have seen stickers wrapped around piping. First time for everything, I guess.

That aside, the place was pretty clean as a whole -- though I visited during the opening minutes of a basketball game, so few had made their way to the bathroom by then. I've made other visits while attending other events and the bathroom was far messier then. For this one, I found some trash on the floor, some spilled water and pee and some foul odors in the air, but nothing too horrible. (It's been worse on subsequent visits.)

Still, outside of the sheer size of this cave, there isn't much that's memorable here. Utilitarian at best, and best experienced early on in the game than later as it gets pretty crowded during halftime and on the way out.

Marks out of 10:

6. Really a 5, but that one visit, where I was the only person in there, really added to the experience.

Comments to the Management:

Update the fixtures and keep it cleaner when the place is being swamped -- both things I'm sure you already know, though.